> > On Nov 3, 11:24 am, GT <stopandthin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > Schlueter definately had a sound I've never heard from anyone else and
> > > I guess you hate it or love it and Ozawa seemed to hate it.>>

> > then why did he grant him tenure?? then try to fire him?? Ozawa
> > definitely has had problems in this area of "personnel relations" -
> > major problem with SFSO, and then several more in Boston.

> > <<Ozawa must have been quite happy to see Schueter was gone when he
> > came to

> > > guest conduct last year.  >>

> > It is my understanding that in Schlueter's last couple of seasons he
> > did not play when Levine conducted....was there a history between
> > those two as well??....I heard the BSO several times during that
> > period - Schlueter played for other conductors, but not when Levine
> > conducted...

> In that Vineland book they said Ozawa thought his audition was
> "perfect" but his playing started diminishing when he got the job.  I
> think Ozawa just didn't know what he wanted.  As for Levine, I have no
> idea if there is something between those two.  I heard that Schlueter
> didn't like all the new music Levine programmed but I don't know why
> he wouldn't play for the traditional pieces...

> > On Nov 3, 6:42 am, Heck51 <dgallagh...@comcast.net> wrote:

> > > On Nov 3, 12:18 am, M forever <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > I gather from this that Mr Schlueter played in the BSO. When was he
> > > > there?>>

> > > from c 1981 -2006

> > > << What "battles" did he fight with Ozawa?>>

> > > Ozawa displayed his usual indecisiveness in dealing with Schlueter -
> > > Schlueter was hired, and Ozawa agreed to his tenure - then he promptly
> > > tried to get him fired [after he was tenured!!] - Schlueter kept his
> > > job after a long struggle.

> > > Carl Vigeland's book "In Concert" goes into great detail about this
> > > episode.

> > > <<a sort of homogeneous "Bb" quality of all-purpose

> > > > > orchestral sound>>
> > > > What does "Bb quality" mean?>>

> > > a musical colloquialism - a general, homogeneous, all-sounding-the-
> > > same style of sound.

> > Schlueter definately had a sound I've never heard from anyone else and
> > I guess you hate it or love it and Ozawa seemed to hate it.  Ozawa
> > must have been quite happy to see Schueter was gone when he came to
> > guest conduct last year.  He was in the orchestra from 1981 to 2006.
> > He was in Minnesota before that and was talked into an audition for
> > the Boston job and supposedly just played one of the best auditions
> > the committee ever heard.  In the Ozawa Mahler Symphonies on Phillips
> > he is on first trumpet and you can hear some of his vibrato in spots
> > you don't hear it on other recordings.  But that Mahler 7 is probably
> > the best of that Mahler cycle. I do like 1, 2 and 3 as well.  6 Was
> > terrible, all the others are decent.

> Schlueter was a distinctive player, and not always at his best, but he
> was often so stunningly musical that I forgave all the annoyances. I
> heard him at both his best and worst in the hall, and I always looked
> forward to his playing nonetheless. On broadcasts, in the early 80s,
> his sound did seem kind of "large" for the orchestra, but his
> strengths worked well with the orchestra's historical bright, frothy
> brass sound and colorful way with French and Slavic music. I think he
> was a natural successor to Ghitalla and Voisin.

> --Jeff

> > I gather from this that Mr Schlueter played in the BSO. When was he
> > there?>>

> from c 1981 -2006

> << What "battles" did he fight with Ozawa?>>

> Ozawa displayed his usual indecisiveness in dealing with Schlueter -
> Schlueter was hired, and Ozawa agreed to his tenure - then he promptly
> tried to get him fired [after he was tenured!!] - Schlueter kept his
> job after a long struggle.

> Carl Vigeland's book "In Concert" goes into great detail about this
> episode.

> > > orchestral sound>>
> > What does "Bb quality" mean?>>

> a musical colloquialism - a general, homogeneous, all-sounding-the-
> same style of sound.

> > On Nov 3, 8:24 am, GT <stopandthin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > On Nov 3, 6:42 am, Heck51 <dgallagh...@comcast.net> wrote:

> > > > On Nov 3, 12:18 am, M forever <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > I gather from this that Mr Schlueter played in the BSO. When was he
> > > > > there?>>

> > > > from c 1981 -2006

> > > > << What "battles" did he fight with Ozawa?>>

> > > > Ozawa displayed his usual indecisiveness in dealing with Schlueter -
> > > > Schlueter was hired, and Ozawa agreed to his tenure - then he promptly
> > > > tried to get him fired [after he was tenured!!] - Schlueter kept his
> > > > job after a long struggle.

> > > > Carl Vigeland's book "In Concert" goes into great detail about this
> > > > episode.

> > > > <<a sort of homogeneous "Bb" quality of all-purpose

> > > > > > orchestral sound>>
> > > > > What does "Bb quality" mean?>>

> > > > a musical colloquialism - a general, homogeneous, all-sounding-the-
> > > > same style of sound.

> > > Schlueter definately had a sound I've never heard from anyone else and
> > > I guess you hate it or love it and Ozawa seemed to hate it.  Ozawa
> > > must have been quite happy to see Schueter was gone when he came to
> > > guest conduct last year.  He was in the orchestra from 1981 to 2006.
> > > He was in Minnesota before that and was talked into an audition for
> > > the Boston job and supposedly just played one of the best auditions
> > > the committee ever heard.  In the Ozawa Mahler Symphonies on Phillips
> > > he is on first trumpet and you can hear some of his vibrato in spots
> > > you don't hear it on other recordings.  But that Mahler 7 is probably
> > > the best of that Mahler cycle. I do like 1, 2 and 3 as well.  6 Was
> > > terrible, all the others are decent.

> > Schlueter was a distinctive player, and not always at his best, but he
> > was often so stunningly musical that I forgave all the annoyances. I
> > heard him at both his best and worst in the hall, and I always looked
> > forward to his playing nonetheless. On broadcasts, in the early 80s,
> > his sound did seem kind of "large" for the orchestra, but his
> > strengths worked well with the orchestra's historical bright, frothy
> > brass sound and colorful way with French and Slavic music. I think he
> > was a natural successor to Ghitalla and Voisin.

> > --Jeff

> Could you explain your last comment? While Schlueter and Ghitalla have
> similarities in their playing, to me Voisin was totally different in
> almost every aspect.

> Ron Whitaker

> > On Nov 3, 12:18 am, M forever <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > I gather from this that Mr Schlueter played in the BSO. When was he
> > > there?>>

> > from c 1981 -2006

> > << What "battles" did he fight with Ozawa?>>

> > Ozawa displayed his usual indecisiveness in dealing with Schlueter -
> > Schlueter was hired, and Ozawa agreed to his tenure - then he promptly
> > tried to get him fired [after he was tenured!!] - Schlueter kept his
> > job after a long struggle.

> > Carl Vigeland's book "In Concert" goes into great detail about this
> > episode.

> I checked out the preview on amazon. Looks like a good book for those
> who are interested in what goes on "behind the scenes" in the
> "orchestral scene".

> I just wonder how many people actually read that kind of book...

> > <<a sort of homogeneous "Bb" quality of all-purpose

> > > > orchestral sound>>
> > > What does "Bb quality" mean?>>

> > a musical colloquialism - a general, homogeneous, all-sounding-the-
> > same style of sound.

> But didn't you just approvingly quote that text from Kent in which he
> praised the complete homogeneity of the CSO brass sound in which all
> brass instruments are described as the basic same color, just in
> different registers? That's what that sounds like to me.- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

>yep, gawd he really turned red...tho his tone never sounded strained
>or labored

> > except when he blared or got sweet>>

> Bud could do it all. :)

> did you ever hear him play B'burg #2??
> amazing.....

> > On Nov 4, 10:23 pm, ansermetniac <ansermetn...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > except when he blared or got sweet>>

> > Bud could do it all. :)

> > did you ever hear him play B'burg #2??
> > amazing.....

> I heard him play that on an RCA album called "Music from Ravinia" with
> Levine which is quite nice, very fluent and seemingly effortless
> playing, but it's also a very small and thinnish tone, not very
> brilliant, obviously one of those tiny pocket trumpets which a lot of
> trumpet players use for baroque repertoire. It sounds kind of like the
> trumpets on the old "Sesame Street" theme song. I have heard lots of
> trumpet players play like that though, so I don't see what's so
> "amazing..." about that. Maybe it is in your neck of the woods.

> What I find really "amazing..." is how some players manage to squeeze
> that out of a baroque natural trumpet. That has always impressed me a
> lot.

> > On Nov 4, 10:39 pm, Heck51 <dgallagh...@comcast.net> wrote:

> > > On Nov 4, 10:23 pm, ansermetniac <ansermetn...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > > except when he blared or got sweet>>

> > > Bud could do it all. :)

> > > did you ever hear him play B'burg #2??
> > > amazing.....

> > I heard him play that on an RCA album called "Music from Ravinia" with
> > Levine which is quite nice, very fluent and seemingly effortless
> > playing, but it's also a very small and thinnish tone, not very
> > brilliant, obviously one of those tiny pocket trumpets which a lot of
> > trumpet players use for baroque repertoire. It sounds kind of like the
> > trumpets on the old "Sesame Street" theme song. I have heard lots of
> > trumpet players play like that though, so I don't see what's so
> > "amazing..." about that. Maybe it is in your neck of the woods.

> > What I find really "amazing..." is how some players manage to squeeze
> > that out of a baroque natural trumpet. That has always impressed me a
> > lot.

> Of course Herseth is using a piccolo trumpet -- what would you suggest
> that he use?

> > On Nov 5, 2:02 am, M forever <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > On Nov 4, 10:39 pm, Heck51 <dgallagh...@comcast.net> wrote:

> > > > On Nov 4, 10:23 pm, ansermetniac <ansermetn...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > except when he blared or got sweet>>

> > > > Bud could do it all. :)

> > > > did you ever hear him play B'burg #2??
> > > > amazing.....

> > > I heard him play that on an RCA album called "Music from Ravinia" with
> > > Levine which is quite nice, very fluent and seemingly effortless
> > > playing, but it's also a very small and thinnish tone, not very
> > > brilliant, obviously one of those tiny pocket trumpets which a lot of
> > > trumpet players use for baroque repertoire. It sounds kind of like the
> > > trumpets on the old "Sesame Street" theme song. I have heard lots of
> > > trumpet players play like that though, so I don't see what's so
> > > "amazing..." about that. Maybe it is in your neck of the woods.

> > > What I find really "amazing..." is how some players manage to squeeze
> > > that out of a baroque natural trumpet. That has always impressed me a
> > > lot.

> > Of course Herseth is using a piccolo trumpet -- what would you suggest
> > that he use?

> Like I said, that's what pretty much everyone uses, at least when it
> comes to modern instruments. And there are a lot of people who can
> play it extremely well, believe it or not. I know that's something
> that conflicts with the quasi-religious adulation Herseth enjoys in
> the US. Digging out some old Karajan video with strained trumpets
> doesn't change that fact. I agree, BTW, that the playing in that video
> is not particularly glorious. The BP trumpets in that era were never
> particularly virtuoso players and IMO musically not very flexible
> either. They could produce an enormously big sound in standard
> repertoire like Strauss and Bruckner though. I like the principals
> they have now better, incidentally two Hungarian guys who even come
> from the same city. There are a lot of really good Hungarian trumpet
> players. They must have a trumpet player factory there somewhere. Not
> that it matters really. Of course, Hungarians couldn't possibly play
> the trumpet as well as Americans either.
> Like I said, there are a lot of people who can play the high trumpet
> well, even though they may be beyond your horizon and therefore don't
> count. What I really admire though is the people who can play these
> parts on a natural trumpet. That is really an amazing feat.

> What do you expect? They are Germans - they hardly know how to hold
> the instrument and in which end to blow. The third player in that
> video is absolutely aaaaaaaaaaawesome though. He must be - he is
> American.

> > On Nov 5, 6:08 pm, ronwhit <ronw...@usa.net> wrote:

> > > On Nov 5, 2:02 am, M forever <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > On Nov 4, 10:39 pm, Heck51 <dgallagh...@comcast.net> wrote:

> > > > > On Nov 4, 10:23 pm, ansermetniac <ansermetn...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > except when he blared or got sweet>>

> > > > > Bud could do it all. :)

> > > > > did you ever hear him play B'burg #2??
> > > > > amazing.....

> > > > I heard him play that on an RCA album called "Music from Ravinia" with
> > > > Levine which is quite nice, very fluent and seemingly effortless
> > > > playing, but it's also a very small and thinnish tone, not very
> > > > brilliant, obviously one of those tiny pocket trumpets which a lot of
> > > > trumpet players use for baroque repertoire. It sounds kind of like the
> > > > trumpets on the old "Sesame Street" theme song. I have heard lots of
> > > > trumpet players play like that though, so I don't see what's so
> > > > "amazing..." about that. Maybe it is in your neck of the woods.

> > > > What I find really "amazing..." is how some players manage to squeeze
> > > > that out of a baroque natural trumpet. That has always impressed me a
> > > > lot.

> > > Of course Herseth is using a piccolo trumpet -- what would you suggest
> > > that he use?

> > Like I said, that's what pretty much everyone uses, at least when it
> > comes to modern instruments. And there are a lot of people who can
> > play it extremely well, believe it or not. I know that's something
> > that conflicts with the quasi-religious adulation Herseth enjoys in
> > the US. Digging out some old Karajan video with strained trumpets
> > doesn't change that fact. I agree, BTW, that the playing in that video
> > is not particularly glorious. The BP trumpets in that era were never
> > particularly virtuoso players and IMO musically not very flexible
> > either. They could produce an enormously big sound in standard
> > repertoire like Strauss and Bruckner though. I like the principals
> > they have now better, incidentally two Hungarian guys who even come
> > from the same city. There are a lot of really good Hungarian trumpet
> > players. They must have a trumpet player factory there somewhere. Not
> > that it matters really. Of course, Hungarians couldn't possibly play
> > the trumpet as well as Americans either.
> > Like I said, there are a lot of people who can play the high trumpet
> > well, even though they may be beyond your horizon and therefore don't
> > count. What I really admire though is the people who can play these
> > parts on a natural trumpet. That is really an amazing feat.

> You know absolutely nothing about me -- what I know about you is that
> you are not a trumpet player. What exactly do you play, and with what
> organizations have you been a regular member? Since you have asked
> this of other people in this forum, maybe it should be asked of you.

> > What do you expect? They are Germans - they hardly know how to hold
> > the instrument and in which end to blow. The third player in that
> > video is absolutely aaaaaaaaaaawesome though. He must be - he is
> > American.

> Actually, on this video the third player is not very good either -- I
> couldn't care less where he is from.